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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 7, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

Anyone else here felt like they BARELY made it through a good Space while dosed??? Same applies here imo. This is something no amount of reading can explain. Emotionally delicate state induced by a psychadelic journey being played out on stage all the while fueled by chemistry. They didnt talk cause they couldnt, they cheered cause it was over and the transition was mind blowing. Its all part of the experience. The scientific method does not apply to the vibe of the crowd. You have to feel it...OK, thats my take.

EDIT: I just read WT's post and I don't think people were yawning or whatever during the jams....Why then would they freak out so bad when this 33 min DS ended? I think the opposite was true. Of course I was not there at the time, but there are so many accounts of classic shows with very long DS and others that were described as brilliant. I am choosing not to believe that people were sitting around bored during the performance of Dark Star during 12/11/1972. This seems insane to me.

This post was modified by Skobud on 2010-09-07 15:45:18

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 7, 2010 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

I have had that hairy space microdot experience also Skobud . Usually when I went to shows by myself , which I liked doing from time to time or under last minute cancellations . Being alone brought a certain edge to the music .

Skobud , I believe WT . There is a generational gap in some aspects to this GD world . One would think so with a 30 year career . I do not know when your time was , but as someone mentioned recently , the '87 - '95 crowd ( that's me ! ) would have clapped if JG ripped a long one into the mike . That actually is kinda funny . I would have gone nuts throughout any DS , and the less they sang and more they jammed made me a happy camper .

It could be the same old song , with what you want is what someone else already had . And maybe vice versa . There's a song like that... ;)

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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 7, 2010 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

Im the same generation as you, and when I say I find it crazy that people were bored it is a reflection of my time I suppose. Still though, bored? Im not doubting some were, but my experience was much different. I guess I would say i cant relate to that type of a feeling at a show.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 7, 2010 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

Really interesting comments. The era comparisons are always fascinating to me. But I think we have to remember that everyone was having different experiences, no matter the era. One person might be bored during a space or long DS, another might be having intense reflections, another might be focusing on the music and aware of the turn-on-the-dime aspect ... as many reasons to cheer as there were people.

I can see people cheering, too, cuz they're lemmings. Cheers are catching. Some rather-more-attentive people cheer because of something in the music (turning on a dime, hearing Stella Blue, a feeling of release after an intense personal experience during a long DS); their less aware friends cheer cuz everyone is cheering.

But I do have a hard time thinking of people cheering just cuz they're glad a song is over. Even if they're bored, and are wondering what the heck is up with this band, would they cheer for that reason? "Yee hah, the noodling is over! Let's go NUTS!" Hmmm. Seems unlikely. To me, anyway.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 7, 2010 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

I think skobud and micah, following on LiA's implied "diff in eras" FANWISE, are on the right track...imagine you've brought three 'newbies', and you are looking at their faces during space in 76...

Trust me, you cheered, and so did they when it ended.

My wife was one that reluctantly went and she is a die hard, "anything over five minutes?! PLLEEEASSE!".

Finally, on the "good fight" I've spoken of, there were actually three groups. "Us", the good guys that defended the DEAD on all levels; "them", the bad guys that said LedZep was tops and we were nuts (the thread a while back?).

But, there was another small group: I had at least a dozen people say to me at parties and debates (we really did this a lot; more than I do here...har, but truly) play the moderator by saying: "look, I'll grant you M&MU is a GREAT song, but twenty minutes of DS?!? you've got to be kidding me...! Anyone can do that...it's just noise"

And they were talking about OUR beloved DS from LiveDead!

Shudder...

Anyhow, my pt here and above is that we mid70s folks were largely S&R heads...born and raised on AmBe and Work, and thinking that LiveDead was great BUT it wasn't being played anymore...the Band had moved on, and so did we.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 7, 2010 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

WT , Were you nearby when CGBG's exploded ( musically ) ?
'Punk' music has a lot of spaces between Television , Patti Smith ( for you BD ), Richard H & t VDoids , Talking Heads , and Blondie .

How many Debbie Harry crushes out there men of a certain age ?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 7, 2010 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

I was paying NO attn; seriously...completely "deadicated" thru 70s and early 80s...only yrs later did I open up to other such folk.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 7, 2010 3:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

Patti Smith is the real deal... Debbie Harry was just more "dance" music (read "disco") which we HATED.

More to WT's point: the mid to late 70's saw an explosion of rock bands heading into the metal, hair band era. In the midwest we could largely ignore the CBGB scene in NY - there was a lot of rock'n roll out there. Hanging on to the Dead was an act of true faith, especially if a huge chunk of the show was filler like Space and Drums. - ditto - you cheered when it ended.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 7, 2010 4:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

Thanks UJ and micah, for "believing me"...har, har, but seriously. I know it sounds contra to my "68 era love affair" (ie, Jam Central), but I really have reversed myself from short songs of the 70s to extended high energy jams of the 68-69 era.

And, to sko/LiA/ARose, of course, there's a bit of apples and oranges here. Again, we weren't hearing the 72 DSs. We were hearing a new kind of jam...the higher energy ones of familiar sorts like, again, NFA, IKYR, GDTRFB, etc., or even OOne/M&MU, were well enough liked because they were extended songs...but the newer addition of space/drums/rhydevils/etc was altogether different. UJ hit the nail I was hammering on the head: seemed like filler, breaktime to the band and to us...

But any long jam with an extended lull, insect noise element (maybe a PITB or EotWor, or Bl4Allah) would be somewhat dulling to the senses for us...my view now is that an extended Eleven would not have been, nor would one of the "named" jams of 69-70 DSs that in essence, sound like a song so to speak. But we weren't hearing alot of that kind of jamming...from 74-82 anyhow.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 7, 2010 7:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?

One of the things I thought upon reading all this is that seeing the band in the time you're talking about, WT, must have been a different experience -- not just musically, but in terms of expectations -- from seeing them later.

By the late 80s, a lot of the folks would, I imagine, have been going to see "THE DEAD" in a defined way: a legendary, even mythic band, probably having heard a ton of tapes, gotten tips from friends, etc. Sure, in those huge stadiums, there might have been a lot of drunken twits expecting something different. But the Dead had also become THE DEAD. Written in tie-dyed colors.

I'm thinking that in WT's "era," what the Dead "meant" wasn't quite as defined in the audience's mind. If this makes sense, the idea of "what are they doing now that's relevant?" would have been more of an issue. You COULD be bored by long DS jams or the just-emerging space concept because it wasn't already iconic. I'm projecting back a bit, perhaps; I came in between WT and micah, in that I "got on the bus" in '78, when the Dead weren't iconic, exactly -- more of a niche/cult taste -- but when I first saw them, there was also a sense of them changing and producing things that were new. The band itself wasn't "new," and it wasn't SF so there was no live argument about "best SF bands," but there was still a kind of edginess or relevance that hadn't yet been replaced by expectation and memory. If that makes sense. So I think maybe I have a sense of what WT means.

(Though I still say folks don't clap cuz it's over, LOL. But then, I wasn't there. Maybe in WT's section of the hall, that's what they were doing :-) )

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 7, 2010 7:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?/Iconic

I think much of what you write is spot on , AR .
I saw touring /GD as the last chance to catch the circus before the 'frontier' closed completely . The GD were a huge funky edifice begging me to explore and find some treats , or to get my wallet and face stolen .
GD was a heavy machine the last 1/3 of their career . They effected cities . The energy level was nuts in the scene . I remember saying many times to myself , "Don't forget this ."
It looked real different in the movie Sunshine Daydream . I don't think the phrase ".... they are the only one's who do what they do " had as much meaning in the 70's . You still had great music being made all over the place . Not so much by the late 80's . GD were the only ones . Iconic .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 7, 2010 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?/Iconic

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 7, 2010 11:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?/Iconic

LOL. I had some brilliant comment here. But I put in that little carrot thing at the start to quote Micah, and then it all evaporates into ... hot air, I guess. Now of course I can't remember it. But I'll try to see if my carrot thingy theory is correct. If there's a big blank afterwards, it is. Testing, testing ...

Edit: Test successful. I put the carrot thingy in it and it came up blank. I think I may be discovering html or something :-)

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-09-08 06:13:30

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 8, 2010 5:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?/Iconic

I think that's a big part of it, AUD variation.

Oh, and I think I've mis-stated, etc...I am saying that they are clapping BECAUSE they recognize a coherent tune, NOT because the incoherence is ending...

Subtle diff, I think?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 7, 2010 11:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MOTB...or is that BOTB?/Iconic

You are in the internet , AR
not on it
must be KTM